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Author Topic: English to Coptic?  (Read 2776 times)

18 August , 2015, 05:46:18 pm
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Offline Ellomy

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English to Coptic?
« on: 18 August , 2015, 05:46:18 pm »
Hello, could anyone help me translate this sentence into Coptic?

"Men, who must live to explore the art of mathematics and chase perfect knowledge, must also find cooperation amongst themselves for as long as they inhabit their bestial flesh."

18 August , 2015, 07:09:00 pm
Reply #1

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Re: English to Coptic?
« Reply #1 on: 18 August , 2015, 07:09:00 pm »
Can't even translate it to my mother tongue.
Can you write it in a very simplified English?

18 August , 2015, 09:09:13 pm
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Offline Ellomy

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Re: English to Coptic?
« Reply #2 on: 18 August , 2015, 09:09:13 pm »
Sure, I will try.

"Human beings, who must explore the art of mathematics and chase perfect knowledge, must also find a way to cooperate with each other, at least for as long as human beings exist as beasts, living in flesh and bone."

Does that make it a little easier?

20 August , 2015, 01:10:44 pm
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Re: English to Coptic?
« Reply #3 on: 20 August , 2015, 01:10:44 pm »
Ⲛⲓⲣⲱⲙⲓ ⲛⲏⲉⲧⲕⲱϯ ⲛⲥⲁ ⲡⲓⲉⲙⲓ ˋⲙⲙⲉⲧⲱⲡ ⲛⲉⲙ ⲡϫⲓⲛⲥⲱⲟⲩⲛ ⲉⲧϫⲏⲕ ⲉⲃⲟⲗ ⲥeϣⲉ ⲟⲛ ˋⲛⲧⲟⲩ.ⲥⲱⲟⲩⲛ ˋⲉˋⲉⲣϩⲱⲃ ⲛⲉⲙ ⲛⲟⲩⲉⲣⲏⲟⲩ  [as long as] ⲥⲉ ϣⲟⲡ ϧⲉⲛ ⲛⲟⲩⲥⲱⲙⲁ
humans who seek knowledge of (calculations) and the complete knowledge they should also know to work with each others as long as they live in their bodies/flesh

Couldn't find equivalent to "as long as" usually we use the negative version "until"

20 August , 2015, 04:09:57 pm
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Offline Ellomy

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Re: English to Coptic?
« Reply #4 on: 20 August , 2015, 04:09:57 pm »
Oh ok, very interesting.  Thank you so much.

So if I could revise it slightly, how would you rephrase it if it was:

"Humans, who should/must seek knowledge of calculations and thus of complete knowledge, should/must also know how to work with each other until they no longer live in their flesh."

Is there a word for "must?"  Must, meaning "to be required to do."

Also thank you for the English translation you put just below it; that was very helpful.  Ϯϣⲉⲡϩ̀ⲙⲟⲧ ⲛ̀ⲧⲟⲧⲕ.

28 August , 2015, 12:43:48 pm
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Re: English to Coptic?
« Reply #5 on: 28 August , 2015, 12:43:48 pm »
Ⲛⲓⲣⲱⲙⲓ ⲛⲏⲉⲧⲕⲱϯ ⲛⲥⲁ ⲡⲓⲉⲙⲓ ˋⲙⲙⲉⲧⲱⲡ ⲛⲉⲙ ⲡϫⲓⲛⲥⲱⲟⲩⲛ ⲉⲧϫⲏⲕ ⲉⲃⲟⲗ ⲥeϣⲉ ⲟⲛ ˋⲛⲧⲟⲩ.ⲥⲱⲟⲩⲛ ˋⲉˋⲉⲣϩⲱⲃ ⲛⲉⲙ ⲛⲟⲩⲉⲣⲏⲟⲩ ϩⲱⲥ ⲥⲉ ϣⲟⲡ ϧⲉⲛ ⲛⲟⲩⲥⲱⲙⲁ
humans who seek knowledge of (calculations) and the complete knowledge they should also know to work with each others while they live in their bodies/flesh

I found that ϩⲱⲥ [gk] can be used to mean "while" based on the verse

ϢⲰⲠⲒ ⲈⲔⲔⲀϮ ⲈⲠⲈⲔⲀⲚⲦⲒⲆⲒⲔⲞⲤ ⲚⲬⲰⲖⲈⲘ ϨⲰⲤ ⲈϤⲬⲎ ⲚⲈⲘⲀⲔ ϨⲒ ⲠⲒⲘⲰⲒⲦ
"Make friends quickly with your opponent at law while you are with him on the way"

Mathew 5: 25

29 August , 2015, 12:06:22 pm
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Offline Ellomy

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Re: English to Coptic?
« Reply #6 on: 29 August , 2015, 12:06:22 pm »
Thank you again for being so helpful, I really appreciate it.

I'm sorry to ask one more time, but would you be able to rephrase the sentence with a couple of different words, and format it like the sentence below?  With the Coptic words in parenthesis, right after the English word.  Just so I can see which Coptic words go with which English words?  Thank you again.

Format Example:
I(Ⲁ̀ⲛⲟⲕ) am(ⲡⲉ) the resurrection(ϯⲁⲛⲁⲥⲧⲁⲥⲓⲥ).

The final sentence is:
"Humans (ⲛⲓⲣⲱⲙⲓ), who are required(maybe ⲉⲧϭⲛⲟⲩ?) to seek knowledge of calculations and thus(not sure if it’s ϩⲓⲛⲁⲓ or ⲡⲁⲓⲣⲏϯ) of complete knowledge, are also required to know how to work with each other until(ϣⲁ) they no longer live in their flesh."

Ϯϣⲉⲡϩ̀ⲙⲟⲧ ⲛ̀ⲧⲟⲧⲕ.  :^^^

29 August , 2015, 12:32:10 pm
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Re: English to Coptic?
« Reply #7 on: 29 August , 2015, 12:32:10 pm »
Ⲛⲓⲣⲱⲙⲓ(People/men/humans) ⲛⲏⲉⲧ(who are)ⲕⲱϯ ⲛⲥⲁ(Seeking) ⲡⲓⲉⲙⲓ(the knowledge) ˋⲙ(of)ⲙⲉⲧⲱⲡ(calculation) ⲛⲉⲙ(and) ⲡϫⲓⲛⲥⲱⲟⲩⲛ(knowledge) ⲉⲧϫⲏⲕ (which is complete) ⲉⲃⲟⲗ(not translated) ⲥeϣⲉ (they should) ⲟⲛ (also) ˋⲛⲧⲟⲩ.ⲥⲱⲟⲩⲛ (to know) ˋⲉˋⲉⲣϩⲱⲃ(to do work)  ⲛⲉⲙ ⲛⲟⲩⲉⲣⲏⲟⲩ (together / with each others) ϩⲱⲥ (while) ⲥⲉ (they) ϣⲟⲡ (live/exist) ϧⲉⲛ (in) ⲛⲟⲩⲥⲱⲙⲁ (a body)

or
ϣⲁ(until) ˋⲛⲧⲟⲩ (they) ⲙⲟⲩ (die)
or
ϣⲁ(until) ˋⲛⲧⲟⲩ (they) ϣⲟⲡ (live/exist) ϧⲉⲛ (in) ⲛⲟⲩⲥⲱⲙⲁ (a body) ⲁⲛ (not)


Quote
thus(not sure if it’s ϩⲓⲛⲁⲓ or ⲡⲁⲓⲣⲏϯ)
I don't know what is  ϩⲓⲛⲁⲓ and ⲡⲁⲓⲣⲏϯ means (like, similar to, same as) and it doesn't fit in that context.

Quote
who are required(maybe ⲉⲧϭⲛⲟⲩ?)
I don't know ⲉⲧϭⲛⲟⲩ and not sure how to translate this part.

29 August , 2015, 12:32:46 pm
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Re: English to Coptic?
« Reply #8 on: 29 August , 2015, 12:32:46 pm »
You can always find English verse that has part of the meaning you are seeking and see how it got transalted to coptic
http://unbound.biola.edu/

29 August , 2015, 01:02:49 pm
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Offline Ellomy

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Re: English to Coptic?
« Reply #9 on: 29 August , 2015, 01:02:49 pm »
Thank you again so much, you've been a huge help.

In this part "ˋⲛⲧⲟⲩ.ⲥⲱⲟⲩⲛ (to know)" can you tell me why there is a period there, between the ⲩ and ⲥ?

Does the period mean something, or was that just a small accident in typing?  "ⲛⲧⲟⲩ.ⲥⲱⲟⲩⲛ"

Ϯϣⲉⲡϩ̀ⲙⲟⲧ ⲛ̀ⲧⲟⲧⲕ!

29 August , 2015, 05:36:17 pm
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Re: English to Coptic?
« Reply #10 on: 29 August , 2015, 05:36:17 pm »
Sorry the period shouldn't exist.
We put periods sometimes to help new comers know when one part of the word end and another start.
In this case it was for separating ˋⲛⲧⲟⲩ "for them to" and ⲥⲱⲟⲩⲛ "know"

01 September , 2015, 01:46:16 am
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Offline Ellomy

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Re: English to Coptic?
« Reply #11 on: 01 September , 2015, 01:46:16 am »
Sorry, a follow up question here.

Can you translate the following Coptic sentence into English as best you can?


ⲛⲓⲁⲛⲑⲣⲱⲡⲟⲥ ⲉⲛϫⲏⲃ ⲛ̀ⲧⲉ ϯⲙⲉⲗⲉⲧⲏ ϧⲉⲛ ⲡⲓⲥⲃ̀ⲱ ⲛ̀ⲡ̀ⲁⲣⲓⲑⲙⲟⲥ ⲛⲉⲙ ⲟⲩⲕⲟⲩⲛ ⲟⲩⲅⲛⲱⲥⲓⲥ ⲉⲥⲧⲉⲗⲓⲁ ⲛ̀ⲑⲱⲟⲩ ⲟⲛ ⲟⲩϫⲏⲃ ⲛⲉ ϯⲙⲓⲛⲓ ⲛ̀ⲧⲉ ⲡ̀ⲧⲱⲟⲩⲛ ⲉⲩⲥⲟⲡ ϣⲁ ⲛ̀ⲑⲱⲟⲩ ⲥⲉⲱⲛϧ ⲁⲛ ϧⲉⲛ ⲛⲟⲩⲥⲁⲣⲝ.

02 September , 2015, 12:37:36 pm
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Re: English to Coptic?
« Reply #12 on: 02 September , 2015, 12:37:36 pm »
ⲛⲓⲁⲛⲑⲣⲱⲡⲟⲥ ⲉⲛϫⲏⲃ ⲛ̀ⲧⲉ ϯⲙⲉⲗⲉⲧⲏ ϧⲉⲛ ⲡⲓⲥⲃ̀ⲱ ⲛ̀ⲡ̀ⲁⲣⲓⲑⲙⲟⲥ ⲛⲉⲙ ⲟⲩⲕⲟⲩⲛ ⲟⲩⲅⲛⲱⲥⲓⲥ ⲉⲥⲧⲉⲗⲓⲁ ⲛ̀ⲑⲱⲟⲩ ⲟⲛ ⲟⲩϫⲏⲃ ⲛⲉ ϯⲙⲓⲛⲓ ⲛ̀ⲧⲉ ⲡ̀ⲧⲱⲟⲩⲛ ⲉⲩⲥⲟⲡ ϣⲁ ⲛ̀ⲑⲱⲟⲩ ⲥⲉⲱⲛϧ ⲁⲛ ϧⲉⲛ ⲛⲟⲩⲥⲁⲣⲝ.

the(pl) [Greek Word] takers? of the [Greek Word] in the teaching of Parthimos and a [greek word] [greek word] [greek word] they are also takers? the [greek word?] of the eternity alltogether until they don't live in flesh anymore.

03 September , 2015, 05:51:38 am
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Offline Ellomy

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Re: English to Coptic?
« Reply #13 on: 03 September , 2015, 05:51:38 am »
Ok thank you; I see then that most of the words are Greek-loan words.

15 September , 2015, 11:27:56 am
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Offline Ellomy

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Re: English to Coptic?
« Reply #14 on: 15 September , 2015, 11:27:56 am »
So after a little more looking and learning, and help from friends, I have a new sentence.

ⲙⲉⲧⲣⲱⲙⲓ(Humankind) ⲥⲉⲟⲛϧ(they live) ⲉ̀ⲑⲣⲟⲩϣⲓⲛⲓ(in order/so that/for they seek) ⲡ̀ⲉ̀ⲙⲓ(the knowledge) ⲉⲧϫⲏⲕ ⲉⲃⲟⲗ(which is complete) ⲛ̀ⲧⲉ(of) ⲡϫⲓⲛⲱⲡ(the act of calculations).

ⲙⲉⲧⲣⲱⲙⲓ, ⲥⲉⲟⲛϧ ⲉ̀ⲑⲣⲟⲩϣⲓⲛⲓ ⲡ̀ⲉ̀ⲙⲓ ⲉⲧϫⲏⲕ ⲉⲃⲟⲗ ⲛ̀ⲧⲉ ⲡϫⲓⲛⲱⲡ.

I replaced ⲥⲱⲟⲩⲛ with ⲉ̀ⲙⲓ, since I think ⲉ̀ⲙⲓ is used for general knowledge, while ⲥⲱⲟⲩⲛ is used for more specific knowledge.  Do you think this change is good, or bad?

Also, if you can find anything else wrong with the sentence, please let me know.  Thank you!  :)