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Author Topic: Suggestion  (Read 14418 times)

01 January , 2008, 01:05:21 am
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Offline Ahmesis

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Suggestion
« on: 01 January , 2008, 01:05:21 am »
Oujai
First of all I would like to thank the administrator for his interesting forum on Kimi, the cherished country, though minor details I want to point out in order to better propagate the site and retain its importance.
I am at a loss for words as to the interesting topics and articles posed in this site but am sorry to stress out its near sterility (as to the language used mostly in the forum) in accordance with the functionality of its post by means of the internet.
And this lies within the usage of Arabic in treating the various documents. I do agree that most of us do not speak English but we could make an effort.
I am an Egyptian myself but stray from documenting my knowledge in Arabic due to its scientific impotence in handling matters believed to be first and foremost humanitarian. The Coptic language is a humanistic language to the first degree. I consider it, personally the mother of all languages, be that French or Italian etc. Arabic falls, of course, in this category, but we, as Egyptians, have been misled by the current Arabic mentality that scours our scope of thinking freely. The usage of a foreign tongue, other than Arabic, could bring us a step forward in dealing with language in a true patriotic sense globally.
My second suggestion is to open links within the forum to sites that treat the African heritage and ancient khemetic religion for a better refurbishing of Egypt's Paleochristian art. We, as Copts, deem very alienated from the heart of African traditions, be that Ethiopian, Sudanese, etc.
I would like to kindly propose to the members of this forum two links that have, to a personal degree, offered great insight on African (Coptic is part of the African) esoterism and knowledge
Africa Maat
Another site for the French-speaking members:
L'Antiquité tardive et paleochrétienne

02 January , 2008, 02:41:55 pm
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Re: Suggestion
« Reply #1 on: 02 January , 2008, 02:41:55 pm »
Thank you for your suggestions
First of all this forum is about kami not kimi, we use the original pronunciation here http://kame.danacbe.com/index.php?topic=2.0

As you said "most some of us don't speak English", but all of us speak Arabic and I think it will be hard to convince everyone to use English instead of Arabic
all of what we can do is to write both English and Arabic versions of the Important articles

Finally thank you for your valuable links and for your participation

02 January , 2008, 06:11:33 pm
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Offline Ahmesis

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Re: Suggestion
« Reply #2 on: 02 January , 2008, 06:11:33 pm »
I am currently studying John Martin Plumley's Introductory Coptic Grammar:
http://www.metalog.org/files/plum.html
Does that apply for the correct pronunciation?

02 January , 2008, 06:29:35 pm
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Re: Suggestion
« Reply #3 on: 02 January , 2008, 06:29:35 pm »
here you will find the original pronunciation
http://kame.danacbe.com/index.php?topic=118.0
this table was for the Bohairic dialect
it applies also to the Sahidic dialect except the letters Ⲃ (b or f), Ⲑ (t + h) or (t), Ϭ g (hard)

03 January , 2008, 06:23:21 pm
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Offline Ahmesis

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Re: Suggestion
« Reply #4 on: 03 January , 2008, 06:23:21 pm »
I have been reading lately Coptic religious books and have stumbled on this word:
jaji
How do you pronounce it in Bohairic? Jaji?
And another:

ouoh
I gather the Arabic article و is derived from ouoh.
According to the ancients, the word
ouoh must have been used explicitly in chants to express devotion and multiple divine characteristics... The word ouoh must have been used rapidly and seemed to produce the phonetic waw as we know today.
Just a presumption...

P.S. Do we pronounce it in the abbreviated form "wuoh"? As an ancient Egyptian might do in everyday conversation? Instead of "oo-woh", as I hear in church liturgy?

03 January , 2008, 06:39:18 pm
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Re: Suggestion
« Reply #5 on: 03 January , 2008, 06:39:18 pm »
Yes Ϫⲁϫⲓ is pronounced Jaji
ⲟⲩⲟϩ is pronounced "ouoh" don't split it! it is one syllable word

04 January , 2008, 09:53:48 pm
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Offline Ahmesis

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Re: Suggestion
« Reply #6 on: 04 January , 2008, 09:53:48 pm »
Coptic is likely the origin of even most European languages.
For example, the German word sagen, "to speak/say" is very similar to the Coptic word, which also means "to say/speak", caji.

04 January , 2008, 10:31:52 pm
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Re: Suggestion
« Reply #7 on: 04 January , 2008, 10:31:52 pm »
Of course u agree with me that a single word can't prove that Coptic is the origin of German
Can you provide more words/examples or any historical evidence ?

05 January , 2008, 07:26:15 pm
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Offline Ahmesis

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Re: Suggestion
« Reply #8 on: 05 January , 2008, 07:26:15 pm »
Here is a list of words in Coptic that correlate with similar French words:
  • pirwmi l'homme
  • masinek machine
  • Éc sa, son, ses
  • ]nou maintenant, English "now"
  • ran nom, name
  • mau mère
  • cwni sœur
  • rasi "ravi"
  • vYouÉi "fée", "féerique"
  • ] "donner", "don"
  • an "in"
  • noun "nous"
  • ten "nous"
  • Éw "ô"
  • nYb "noble"
  • ouon "un"
  • sa "jusqu'à"
  • Éklinwmen "v. incliner"
  • jamoul "chameau"
  • [wm "champ"
  • ja[Y "gauche"
  • lac "langue"
  • mei "aimer"
  • Éanon "nous"
  • an "non"
  • mou "mort"
  • ca "ce"
  • Éwni "onyx"
  • ic "voici"
  • ourwou "rois"
  • iarwou "rivière"
  • ou "un/une"
  • ce "si"
  • caji "sage"
  • coou "six"
  • sasf "sept"
  • mY] "milieu"

05 January , 2008, 08:34:35 pm
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Re: Suggestion
« Reply #9 on: 05 January , 2008, 08:34:35 pm »
Wow, Thats too much
Please this information is more important than placing it in a reply to a topic entitled "suggestion"
so if you have time
can you please post it in a new topic here http://kame.danacbe.com/index.php?board=9.0 ?
also the Coptic (ASCII) letters you use is not easy to read
So can you please download the Coptic Editor http://danacbe.com/CopticEditor/ce.html and use real Coptic letters instead of this ASCII representation?

or if you don't have time for that, just post an Empty topic and I rewrite this information there

Thank you

05 January , 2008, 11:34:02 pm
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Re: Suggestion
« Reply #10 on: 05 January , 2008, 11:34:02 pm »
Thank you very much
hope that this is only the begin

26 January , 2008, 03:42:47 pm
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Offline Ahmesis

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Re: Suggestion
« Reply #11 on: 26 January , 2008, 03:42:47 pm »
I would like to pose a question concerning the use of the Coptic font in writing HTML.

I am in the process of making a site on the Coptic language and its relation with the hieroglyphs but do not know how to implement Coptic fonts in my lessons.

Could someone please help?

26 January , 2008, 10:09:57 pm
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Re: Suggestion
« Reply #12 on: 26 January , 2008, 10:09:57 pm »
here http://danacbe.com/Downloads.html
You will find a coptic unicode font and a coptic editor
hope that help

09 February , 2008, 11:02:42 pm
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Offline Ahmesis

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Re: Modern Bohairic vs Old Bohairic
« Reply #13 on: 09 February , 2008, 11:02:42 pm »
I recently bought a concise Arabic-Coptic dictionary by (deakon?) diakwn Magdi Ayyad Youssef and was a wee confused by the pronunciation chart in the introductory part of the given document.

Y, according to the author as well as another known amateur of the Coptic language, Kamal Farid Isaac, is pronounced as a stretched "ee".

How can you prove the claim that Y is pronounced ā?

10 February , 2008, 12:39:47 am
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Re: Suggestion
« Reply #14 on: 10 February , 2008, 12:39:47 am »
There letter Ⲏ is pronounced "ee" in GB (Greek Bohairic)
and it is pronounced "ee" Or ā in the original pronunciation
The church adopted the GB since about 200 years ago
And it is the one that is used in prayers, and Dr.Kamal Farid is one of its teachers
but this is not the original pronounciaton that was actually used by copts when it was a spoken language
Have you read this article? http://kame.danacbe.com/index.php?topic=2.0

I can provide many proves for my claim, but i don't know which kind do you want
1- there is manuscripts (coptic text with its pronunciation in Arabic)
2- the current pronunciation of names of famous copts who lived in the past
3- current pronunciation of Names of some cities in Egypt

and if you want books then there is
Coptic Sounds By W. Worrell
http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0097-8507(193406)10%3A2%3C220%3ACSPITM%3E2.0.CO%3B2-Q
Crum Dictionary: (it is very famous and well known)
Book of Fr. Shenouda Maher
tell me if you need more