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10 February , 2008, 06:17:40 pm
Reply #15

Offline Ahmesis

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Re: Suggestion
« Reply #15 on: 10 February , 2008, 06:17:40 pm »
Thanks a million for the useful information.

Is Worrell's book downloadable? I'm afraid I can't access it.

Now it seems apparent that the Coptic Church uses the Greek pronunciation in liturgy. But it seems vulgar to me, not like the original Greek. I prefer a return to the ancient Egyptian dialect. One that was orated centuries before Christianity in Kamite temples throughout! And I guess your claim is true. I could but imagine the sound of these vowels: a> Y> i> o> w  through ancient orators of the Book of the Dead and other sacred scriptures.

I did read your interesting article although I request more proof of your conviction. Namely, as you already suggested, through the oldest manuscripts, of course the current pronunciations of Coptic names of the very past. And lastly, pronunciation of cities and villages of Egypt.

I would like to know more about Fr. Shenouda Maher. Who is he?

10 February , 2008, 08:30:55 pm
Reply #16

Offline Admin

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Re: Suggestion
« Reply #16 on: 10 February , 2008, 08:30:55 pm »
this
http://www.copticmuseum.gov.eg/english/internal/gallery_z2.asp?piece_id=379&section_ID=4
is a coptic manuscript which has its pronunciation written in Arabic
you can see that the letter Ⲏ is pronounced "Aleph" in Arabic
(look at the work Ϧⲏⲧϥ )

This is for manuscripts, I am not sure if you know arabic very well
it yes, I let me know and i will send you a list of Coptic names and its pronunciation
about "Coptic Sounds" book, it is very rare and hard even to buy

To know more about Fr. Shenouda Maher refer to his webpage
http://www.rochcopts.org/ShenoudaMaher.php
or use google
http://www.google.com/search?q=Fr.+Shenouda+Maher

10 February , 2008, 10:35:49 pm
Reply #17

Offline Ahmesis

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Re: Suggestion
« Reply #17 on: 10 February , 2008, 10:35:49 pm »
Thank you.

Fr. Shenouda Maher seems a very resourceful personality. I will delve into his site.

Yes, I know Arabic and would like to recieve the Coptic names and their pronunciation because I'm making a correlative site, you see, on the apparent similarity between the modern Egyptian dialect (Coptic) and its ancient counterpart-by Egyptian I don't mean Arabic, I have the firm belief that we, as Egyptians, have been misled by this foreign tradition (if we could name it so) that has drastically upset the genius of Egyptian mentality and African intellect generally.

The spiritual teachings of many North African fathers of the Christian Church, like St. Augustin and St. Anthony have led to Christian reform via the teachings of St. Thomas Aquinas. As we know it today, the Catholic Church holds much of this oriental esoterism in its stronghold of knowledge. Much like the DaVinci Code.

Now the reason I say this, is that many Greek historians, like Herodotus, praised Egyptian knowledge (a trustworthy source of this claim is Isidorus's "Universal History" or "History of the Universe"), including the modern poet Cavafy in whose name "Egyptian Wisdom" held its claim in the poem he wrote on Ithaca.

To visit Egypt is to savour the wisdom of its people (Egyptians not Arabs).

You forgot to tell me how I could reach Worrell's book.

Thank you in advance.

12 February , 2008, 01:21:56 am
Reply #18

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Re: Suggestion
« Reply #18 on: 12 February , 2008, 01:21:56 am »
as for the names here is some scanned pages of the book that contain them
http://kame.danacbe.com/index.php?topic=156.0
About "Coptic Sounds" the book is very hard to find, and I don't know any place that sell it
nor even amazon
but you can search online I am sure you will find some one selling it online
didn't think about buying it cause i know it is rare and expensive

12 February , 2008, 05:17:08 pm
Reply #19

Offline Ahmesis

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Re: Suggestion
« Reply #19 on: 12 February , 2008, 05:17:08 pm »
I am searching for the Coptic edition of بستان الرهبان but cannot find it on the internet. Have you any idea where I could download it?

12 February , 2008, 11:14:38 pm
Reply #20

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Re: Suggestion
« Reply #20 on: 12 February , 2008, 11:14:38 pm »
No, I am afraid not

24 April , 2008, 04:58:01 pm
Reply #21

Offline FadyRaafat

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Re: Suggestion
« Reply #21 on: 24 April , 2008, 04:58:01 pm »
First:
 I want to reply about that coptic language is the original of all as german as you it is not true even if you found a lot of language that is like coptic this is for many reasons
1- if you say so, so the Greek people must say that they are the orgin of the coptic language as about 10% of the coptic words used now day   in the coptic church is from Greek language
2- to say that this language is from that not that they as similar in some vocabulary but the grammar of the language must be near to say so

Second:
for the subject of the resources of the old pronunciation their is a lot of books about this Worrel is good book as it is researches that done  by worrel him self in Egypt in about 1924 in Zeneya in Louxor as this village talks coptic language until this period that and realy they are two books not one and here is their titles "Coptic Text", "Coptic sound" and the link that admin put is not the book but a review on the book and you can found the book in the "societe d'archologie copte" but you can read it only or take a photo copy

Third:
If you want to know another resource their is the book of Gorgy Sobhy and it is in arabic "قواعد اللغة المصرية القبطية" and it is also unavailable and their is a lot of articles in some various bulletin and archaeologically Journals
I hope I can collect it and put it on the Internet
hope I can aid you

15 January , 2009, 11:15:54 pm
Reply #22

Offline ophadece

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Re: Suggestion
« Reply #22 on: 15 January , 2009, 11:15:54 pm »
Admin pamenrit>
]firouws qen `pjinjimi `nouma`nnat `nhli vyetcaji qa nimetercaji `nte nicaji `nhirogliviky ca`thy pijinouwnh ebol `nje ]rem`n<ymi - ]emi je pai naswpi ]lac `ndimotyky

I am interested in finding any website that explains the pronunciations of the Hieroglyphic words before the evolution of the Coptic language - I guess that would be the Demotic dialect
oujai qen `P=[=c
ari`hmot `slyl e;byten anon pi`cnau

16 January , 2009, 12:50:17 pm
Reply #23

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Re: Suggestion
« Reply #23 on: 16 January , 2009, 12:50:17 pm »
this is out of topic
please open a new topic in the "Ask" section and ask for whatever you want