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Author Topic: ⲡⲓϫⲓⲛⲑⲱⲟⲩϯ ˋⲛⲧⲉ ϯⲗⲁⲥ ˋⲛⲣⲉⲙˋⲛⲭⲏⲙⲓ ϧⲉⲛ Ⲧⲟⲛⲕⲁⲥⲑⲉⲣ ˋⲙⲠⲣⲓⲧⲁⲛⲛⲓˋⲁ  (Read 3971 times)

24 September , 2009, 07:54:39 pm
Read 3971 times

Offline ophadece

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ⲛⲁⲙⲉⲛⲣⲁϯ ⲧⲏⲣⲟⲩ>
ϯⲛⲁⲣⲁⲟⲩⲱ ˋⲙˋⲡϫⲓⲛⲑⲱⲟⲩϯ ˋⲛⲧⲉ ϯⲗⲁⲥ ˋⲛⲣⲉⲙˋⲛ<ⲏⲙⲓ ϧⲉⲛ ⲡⲓⲉϩⲟⲟⲩ ˋⲛⲤⲁⲃⲃⲁⲧⲟⲛ (ˋⲙⲙⲁϩϣⲁϣϥ). ⲡⲁⲓϫⲓⲛⲑⲱⲟⲩϯ ⲫⲁⲓ ⲛⲁ ⲟⲩⲟⲛ ˋⲛⲧⲁϥ ⲡⲓⲟⲩⲏⲃ Ⲡⲓϫⲱⲗ ˋⲛϧⲏⲧϥ ⲟⲩⲟϩ ϯⲙⲉⲩˋⲓ ϫⲉ ˋⲛⲑⲟϥ ⲡⲉ ˋⲛⲟⲩⲣⲉϥϯⲟⲩⲃⲉ ˋⲛϯⲙⲉⲧⲉⲣⲥⲁϫⲓ ˋⲛⲁⲡⲁⲥ. ˋⲛϯⲧⲁϫⲣⲏⲟⲩⲧ ⲁⲛ ⲡⲉ ⲉϩⲣⲏⲓ ⲉϫⲉⲛ ⲡⲱⲥ ϯⲛⲁⲙⲓϣⲓ ϧⲁⲣⲟⲥ ˋⲙⲡⲉϥˋⲙⲑⲟ.
ˋϣⲗⲏⲗ ⲉⲑⲃⲏⲧ
Dear all,
I will attend a conference of the Coptic language on the Saturday (the seventh day). That conference will have Fr. Bijol in it and I know that he is an opponent to the old dialect. I am not sure on how I will fight for it before him. Pray for me
ⲟⲩϫⲁⲓ ϧⲉⲛ ˋⲠϭⲤ
« Last Edit: 24 September , 2009, 08:39:18 pm by ophadece »
ari`hmot `slyl e;byten anon pi`cnau

25 September , 2009, 05:04:06 pm
Reply #1

Offline Admin

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Quote
ϯⲗⲁⲥ ˋⲛⲣⲉⲙˋⲛⲬⲏⲙⲓ
ⲗⲁⲥ is masculine so it should be ⲡⲗⲁⲥ or ⲡⲓⲗⲁⲥ
or you can simply say ϯⲙⲉⲧⲣⲉⲙ`ⲛⲭⲏⲙⲓ (The Coptic Language)
or you can say it in the long form ϯⲁⲥⲡⲓ `ⲛⲣⲉⲙ`ⲛⲭⲏⲙⲓ

Quote
ϧⲉⲛ ⲡⲓⲉϩⲟⲟⲩ ˋⲛⲤⲁⲃⲃⲁⲧⲟⲛ (ˋⲙⲙⲁϩϣⲁϣϥ)
this is correct but you can make it shorter by just saying `ⲙⲡⲓϣⲁϣϥ
you can also add the word ⲉⲑⲛⲏⲟⲩ if you want to say "next Saturday"
ˋⲡϫⲓⲛⲑⲱⲟⲩϯ ˋⲛⲧⲉ ⲡⲓⲗⲁⲥ ˋⲛⲣⲉⲙˋⲛⲭⲏⲙⲓ `ⲙⲡⲓϣⲁϣϥ (or ϧⲉⲛ ⲡⲓϣⲁϣϥ) ⲉⲑⲛⲏⲟⲩ

Quote
ⲡⲁⲓϫⲓⲛⲑⲱⲟⲩϯ ⲫⲁⲓ ⲛⲁ ⲟⲩⲟⲛ ˋⲛⲧⲁϥ ⲡⲓⲟⲩⲏⲃ Ⲡⲓϫⲱⲗ ˋⲛϧⲏⲧϥ
Using ⲟⲩⲟⲛ ˋⲛⲧⲁϥ here is not accurate, and I didn't see it used that way before
You can say any of the following instead
ϧⲉⲛ ⲡⲁⲓϫⲓⲛⲑⲱⲟⲩϯ ⲫⲁⲓ ϥⲛⲁϣⲱⲡⲓ (ϥⲛⲁ`ⲓ) `ⲛϫⲉ ⲡⲓⲟⲩⲏⲃ Ⲡⲓϫⲱⲗ
ⲡⲓⲟⲩⲏⲃ Ⲡⲓϫⲱⲗ ϥⲭⲏ (ϥϣⲟⲡ) ϧⲉⲛ ⲡⲁⲓϫⲓⲛⲑⲱⲟⲩϯ
ⲡⲓⲟⲩⲏⲃ Ⲡⲓϫⲱⲗ ⲛⲁ`ⲓ ⲉⲡⲁⲓϫⲓⲛⲑⲱⲟⲩϯ
Here I used ⲭⲏ, ϣⲟⲡ, ϣⲱⲡⲓ, `ⲓ you can also use ⲣⲁⲟⲩⲱ

Quote
ˋⲛⲑⲟϥ ⲡⲉ ˋⲛⲟⲩⲣⲉϥϯⲟⲩⲃⲉ ˋⲛϯⲙⲉⲧⲉⲣⲥⲁϫⲓ ˋⲛⲁⲡⲁⲥ
when you use ⲟⲩ you put ⲡⲉ later for example we say
ⲟⲩⲱⲛϩ ⲉⲃⲟⲗ `ⲙⲡϭⲟⲓⲥ ϫⲉ ⲟⲩⲭⲣⲓⲥⲧⲟⲥ ⲟⲩⲁⲅⲁⲑⲥ ⲡⲉ
also you can't use ⲙⲉⲧ before verb (ⲉⲣⲥⲁϫⲓ is a verb, have u made it up?)
we use ϯϫⲓⲛⲥⲁϫⲓ instead which means (the way words are spoken  [pronunciation])
so the correct sentence can be any of the following
ˋⲛⲑⲟϥ ⲟⲩⲣⲉϥϯⲟⲩⲃⲉ ⲡⲉ ˋⲛϯϫⲓⲛⲥⲁϫⲓ ˋⲛⲁⲡⲁⲥ
ˋⲛⲑⲟϥ ⲟⲩⲣⲉϥϯⲟⲩⲃⲉ ˋⲛϯϫⲓⲛⲥⲁϫⲓ ˋⲛⲁⲡⲁⲥ ⲡⲉ

Quote
ˋⲛϯⲧⲁϫⲣⲏⲟⲩⲧ ⲁⲛ ⲡⲉ ⲉϩⲣⲏⲓ ⲉϫⲉⲛ
I don't know if it is correct or not (do you?)
but I am sure that ⲛϯⲉⲙⲓ ⲁⲛ ϫⲉ is correct and almost gives the same meaning

Quote
ⲡⲱⲥ ϯⲛⲁⲙⲓϣⲓ ϧⲁⲣⲟⲥ ˋⲙⲡⲉϥˋⲙⲑⲟ.
ⲡⲱⲥ is Greek and can be replaced with `ⲛⲁϣ `ⲛⲣⲏϯ if you want
I don't know why you used ϧⲁⲣⲟ= with ⲙⲓϣⲓ, according to the dictionary you should say
ϯⲛⲁⲙⲓϣⲓ ⲉϩⲣⲏⲓ ⲉϫⲟⲥ (I will fight for her)
but for your sentence its better to say
ϯⲛⲁ`ϣⲙⲓϣⲓ ⲉϩⲣⲏⲓ ⲉϫⲟⲥ (I will be able to fight for her)

the complete sentence should be
`ⲛϯⲉⲙⲓ ⲁⲛ ϫⲉ ⲡⲱⲥ (`ⲛⲁϣ `ⲛⲣⲏϯ) ϯⲛⲁ`ϣⲙⲓϣⲓ ⲉϩⲣⲏⲓ ⲉϫⲟⲥ ˋⲙⲡⲉϥˋⲙⲑⲟ (ⲟⲩⲃⲏϥ)
I don't know how I will be able to fight for her in his presence (against him)

Quote
ˋϣⲗⲏⲗ ⲉⲑⲃⲏⲧ
In the bible they say ⲧⲱⲃϩ ⲉϫⲉⲛ or ⲧⲱⲃϩ ⲉϩⲣⲏⲓ ⲉϫⲉⲛ
for example
ⲛⲉⲛⲥⲛⲏⲟⲩ ⲧⲱⲃϩ ⲉϩⲣⲏⲓ ⲉϫⲱⲛ our brothers, pray for us. (1 Thessalonians  5:25)
so you should say instead ⲧⲱⲃϩ ⲉϩⲣⲏⲓ ⲉϫⲱⲓ

Ⲡϭⲟⲓⲥ ⲛⲉⲙⲁⲕ

04 January , 2010, 01:15:47 am
Reply #2

Offline ophadece

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Ⲛⲁⲙⲉⲛⲣⲁϯ ⲧⲏⲣⲟⲩ ⲛⲉⲙ Ⲁⲇⲙⲓⲛ>
ϯⲟⲩⲉⲙˋϩⲑⲏⲓ ϫⲉ ⲁⲓⲱⲥⲕ ⲉⲙⲁϣⲱ ϧⲉⲛ ⲡⲁϫⲓⲛˋⲥϧⲁⲓ ⲧⲁⲓⲉⲡⲓⲥⲧⲟⲗⲏ ⲑⲁⲓ - ⲁⲓϭⲗⲉⲙⲗⲱⲙ ⲉⲙⲁϣⲱ ⲁⲗⲗⲁ ⲫⲁⲓ ⲟⲩⲗⲱⲓϫⲓ ⲉⲧⲉⲣˋⲡⲣⲉⲡⲓ ⲁⲛ ⲡⲉ.
ϧⲉⲛ ˋⲡⲓϫⲓⲛⲕⲱϯ ˋⲛⲥⲁ ⲡⲁⲓϣⲟⲣⲡ ˋⲛⲉⲡⲓⲥⲧⲟⲗⲏ ϯⲟⲩⲱϣ ˋⲛⲧⲁⲥⲁϫⲓ ϫⲉ ⲁⲓⲣⲁⲟⲩⲱ ⲉⲡⲁⲓϫⲓⲛⲑⲱⲟⲩϯ ⲫⲁⲓ ⲁⲗⲗⲁ ˋⲙⲡⲓⲛⲁⲩ ⲉⲡⲓⲟⲩⲏⲃ Ⲡⲓϫⲱⲗ ⲉⲑⲃⲉ ⲁϥⲙⲟϣⲉ ⲡⲓⲥⲁϥ ⲉⲧⲁϥⲥⲓⲛⲓ. ⲁⲓϫⲉⲙ ⲟⲩⲉⲩⲕⲉⲣⲉˋⲁ ˋⲛϯⲛⲁⲩ ⲉ Ⲁⲙⲃⲣⲟⲍⲉ ⲟⲩⲟϩ ⲁⲓⲥⲁϫⲓ ⲛⲉⲙⲁϥ. ϧⲉⲛ ⲟⲩⲙⲉⲑⲙⲏⲓ ˋⲙⲡⲓϫⲟⲥ ˋⲛⲁϣ ˋⲛˋϩⲗⲓ ϧⲁ ϯⲙⲉⲧⲣⲉⲙˋⲛⲭⲏⲙⲓ ⲟⲩⲟϩ ⲉⲑⲃⲉ ⲫⲁⲓ ˋⲙⲡⲓϫⲟⲥ ˋⲛⲁϣ ˋⲛˋϩⲗⲓ ϧⲁ ϯϫⲓⲛⲥⲁϫⲓ ⲁⲓⲛⲁϩϯ ˋⲛϧⲏⲧⲥ. ⲁⲣⲏⲟⲩ ˋϥⲛⲁϣⲱⲡⲓ ϧⲉⲛ ⲡⲓⲛⲉⲓ ⲉⲑⲛⲏⲟⲩ.
I am sorry that I am very late in my writing this letter - I got very busy but that is not an appropriate excuse  :D
In following on from my first letter I want to say that I went to that conference but I didn't meet with Fr. Bajol because he left the day before. I found an opportunity to meet with Ambrose and I spoke with him. In truth I didn't say anything about the Coptic language and that is why I didn't say anything about the pronunciation I believe in. Perhaps that will happen next time.
ⲛⲟϥⲣⲓ ⲣⲟⲙⲡⲓ ˋⲙⲃⲉⲣⲓ
ⲟⲩϫⲁⲓ ϧⲉⲛ ˋⲠϭⲤ
ari`hmot `slyl e;byten anon pi`cnau

05 January , 2010, 03:06:44 pm
Reply #3

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Corrections :) :
Quote
ⲟⲩⲗⲱⲓϫⲓ ⲉⲧⲉⲣˋⲡⲣⲉⲡⲓ
ⲟⲩ and ⲉⲧ can not come together
you either say ⲟⲩⲗⲱⲓϫⲓ ⲉϥⲉⲣˋⲡⲣⲉⲡⲓ
or ⲡⲓⲗⲱⲓϫⲓ ⲉⲧⲉⲣˋⲡⲣⲉⲡⲓ

Quote
ϧⲉⲛ ˋⲡⲓϫⲓⲛⲕⲱϯ ˋⲛⲥⲁ ⲡⲁⲓϣⲟⲣⲡ ˋⲛⲉⲡⲓⲥⲧⲟⲗⲏ
That's would mean "In the search of this first letter"
I can't give literal translation of what you have wrote in English, but the following is another one that gives the same meaning
ϯ(ⲛⲁ)ⲙⲟⲩⲛ ⲉⲃⲟⲗ ˋⲙⲫⲏ ⲉⲧⲁⲓⲉⲣϩⲏⲧⲥ ˋⲙⲙⲟϥ ϧⲉⲛ ⲡⲁϩⲟⲩⲓⲧ ˋⲛⲉⲡⲓⲥⲧⲟⲗⲏ
I (will) continue what I have started [it] in my first letter

Quote
ϯⲟⲩⲱϣ ˋⲛⲧⲁⲥⲁϫⲓ ϫⲉ
ⲥⲁϫⲓ:to speak ϫⲟⲥ: to say
ϯⲟⲩⲱϣ ˋⲛⲧⲁϫⲟⲥ ϫⲉ

Quote
ⲉⲑⲃⲉ ⲁϥⲙⲟϣⲉ ⲡⲓⲥⲁϥ ⲉⲧⲁϥⲥⲓⲛⲓ
ⲥⲁϥ means yesterday , you can't say "the past yesterday"
ϫⲉ is the common way of giving reason so you either say ϫⲉ or ⲉⲑⲃⲉ ϫⲉ
ⲙⲟϣⲓ not ⲙⲟϣⲉ and its better to use ϣⲉⲛⲁϥ in this context
ϫⲉ ⲁϥϣⲉⲛⲁϥ ˋⲛⲥⲁϥ (because he left yesterday)
ϫⲉ ⲁϥϣⲉⲛⲁϥ ˋⲙⲡⲓⲉϩⲟⲟⲩ ⲉⲧϧⲁϫⲱϥ (because he left the day which is before it)
ϫⲉ ⲁϥϣⲉⲛⲁϥ ˋⲙⲡⲓⲉϩⲟⲟⲩ ⲉⲧⲁϥⲥⲓⲛⲓ (because he left the day that passed)

Quote
ˋⲙⲡⲓϫⲟⲥ ˋⲛⲁϣ ˋⲛˋϩⲗⲓ ϧⲁ ϯⲙⲉⲧⲣⲉⲙˋⲛⲭⲏⲙⲓ
ⲉⲑⲃⲉ not ϧⲁ
ˋⲙⲡⲓϫⲟⲥ ˋⲛˋϩⲗⲓ ⲉⲑⲃⲉ ϯⲙⲉⲧⲣⲉⲙˋⲛⲭⲏⲙⲓ
i didn't say a thing about the Coptic

Quote
ⲁⲓⲛⲁϩϯ ˋⲛϧⲏⲧⲥ
ⲁⲓⲛⲁϩϯ ⲉⲣⲟⲥ

Ⲡϭⲟⲓⲥ ⲛⲉⲙⲁⲕ

05 January , 2010, 05:34:52 pm
Reply #4

Offline ophadece

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ϯϣⲉⲡˋϩⲙⲟⲧ ˋⲛⲧⲟⲧⲕ ⲉⲙⲁϣⲱ
ϯⲛⲁⲙⲟⲩⲛ ⲉⲃⲟⲗ ˋⲛⲧⲁˋⲥϧⲁⲓ
ⲟⲩϫⲁⲓ ϧⲉⲛ ˋⲠϭⲤ
ari`hmot `slyl e;byten anon pi`cnau

20 August , 2011, 01:14:19 am
Reply #5

Offline Dupin

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I am very new here, but,

Do I take it that when I get to the point that I'm up to posting in Coptic that you will offer corrections as you have here Admin?  For background I'm studying Coptic on my own using the resources I find on the net.  Since the easiest resources are for Bohairic I am concentrating on that dialect right now though I plan to learn the Sahidic dialect as well.

Dupin

20 August , 2011, 02:22:30 am
Reply #6

Offline Admin

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Welcome Dupin to our forum,
I am not sure how good you writing in Copitc
the better you are the easier to will be for other to correct your small mistakes
but anyway you can post topic about anything you like in Ⲥⲁϫⲓ ⲛⲉⲙⲁⲛ section and we will see
again welcome to our forum and feel free to ask about anything you find puzzeling during your study

20 August , 2011, 02:41:41 am
Reply #7

Offline Dupin

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You're welcome,

It's going to be awhile before I get to that point I think.  But there will come a time where I'll do it for the practice.  Until then I'll post in English.

Dupin