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Author Topic: How many people is there who can talk coptic in the whole world?  (Read 8154 times)

15 August , 2010, 09:21:11 am
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Offline bonnah

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How many people is there who can talk coptic in the whole world?
I read that it was 300 and that they all live in canada and us and some family in egypt..
but now when they are learning coptic in the chuchres and internet its gotta be moore than 300?
thank u for answering.

15 August , 2010, 02:03:37 pm
Reply #1

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Re: How many people is there who can talk coptic in the whole world?
« Reply #1 on: 15 August , 2010, 02:03:37 pm »
u first need to define the word "talking"
so if you can say "Good Morning" in Coptic u might call this talking
or if you are totally fluent in Coptic, that is also called talking
also if you pronounce the Coptic letters as the church, do u call this speaking Coptic (because the church's has invnted this kind of pronunciation and it never existed before the last two centuries
http://kame.danacbe.com/index.php/topic,2.0.html
u need to answer those questions to get an accurate answer

15 August , 2010, 11:36:27 pm
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Offline bonnah

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Re: How many people is there who can talk coptic in the whole world?
« Reply #2 on: 15 August , 2010, 11:36:27 pm »
i meant talking like copts that can talk coptic like they are speaking arabic, fluetly

16 August , 2010, 12:48:00 am
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Re: How many people is there who can talk coptic in the whole world?
« Reply #3 on: 16 August , 2010, 12:48:00 am »
none that I know of,
yes some can speak Coptic at some degree
take for example those videos that was created by batros http://kame.danacbe.com/index.php/topic,261.0.html
I can and do read Coptic books (but never without a dictionary)

some people claim to be speaking coptic fluently, take for example mona zaki http://kame.danacbe.com/index.php/topic,95.0.html but she is not native speaker, her grandfather learned Coptic and used it at home
he made success at some degree but I doubt that they have ever spoke fluently

if that is all not enough, the way you (and mona zaki and most Coptic speakers) pronounce Coptic words is not correct.
this way of pronunciation was invented by church, true Coptic never had letters like "th" and "V"
so the language we use to pray in our churches is not the same as the one our grandfathers used

16 August , 2010, 12:56:35 am
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Offline bonnah

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Re: How many people is there who can talk coptic in the whole world?
« Reply #4 on: 16 August , 2010, 12:56:35 am »
Yes but the language is still coptic its just modernizised ( spell )
all languages are developing, egyptian is a language that existed in moore than 5000 years the copts that lived before the arab conquest could surely not speak with the egyptians that lived in egypt for 6000 years ago do u see my point?
excuse me for my bad english btw..

16 August , 2010, 01:14:48 am
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Re: How many people is there who can talk coptic in the whole world?
« Reply #5 on: 16 August , 2010, 01:14:48 am »
No doubt, all languages develop and change by the time
even Egyptian language, it passed through many changes
but there is a different between natural change/development and artificial one
here is the differences:
* natural development happens only while the language is still alive, not 400 years after its death
* natural development happens because people find better/easier or simpler way to express what they want to say by the time this simpler way dominates and become part of the language, In case the "invented" Coptic the language became harder for the Egyptian to pronounce since "th" and "V" are not native to their tongue.
* natural development has no creator/inventor unlike artificial development which is someone's idea/teaching.

u can not make catholic churchs pronounce the letter V in Latin as W and yet insist that Latin develop like any language.

and this development has bad side effects too
for example the two letters ⲩ v and ϥ  f became very similar (since Egyptian pronounce the V as F)
so now post Coptic students fail to distinguish between ⲁⲩϧⲱⲧⲃⲉϥ they killed him (or he was killed) and ⲁϥϧⲱⲧⲃⲉϥ which means he killed him(self).
that caused many Coptic books to mistakenly write that Jesus "Crucified himself" ⲁϥⲉⲣⲥⲧⲁⲩⲣⲟⲛⲓⲛ ˋⲙⲙⲟϥ instead of "was Crucified"  ⲁⲩⲉⲣⲥⲧⲁⲩⲣⲟⲛⲓⲛ ˋⲙⲙⲟϥ
in the past those two letters had very different pronunciation ⲩ was W and ϥ was F.

27 March , 2018, 12:10:04 am
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Offline ophadece

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Re: How many people is there who can talk coptic in the whole world?
« Reply #6 on: 27 March , 2018, 12:10:04 am »
Dear Alexandre Farag,
I am not sure your historical account is correct! However, I will await the response of other expert members here..
Oujai
Ⲁⲣⲓϩ̀ⲙⲟⲧ ϣ̀ⲗⲏⲗ ⲉϩⲣⲏⲓ ⲉϫⲱⲛ ⲡⲓⲥⲛⲁⲩ

17 April , 2018, 04:44:07 am
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Offline Canis Majoris

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Re: How many people is there who can talk coptic in the whole world?
« Reply #7 on: 17 April , 2018, 04:44:07 am »
Dear Alexandre Farag,
I am not sure your historical account is correct! However, I will await the response of other expert members here..
Oujai

Who is Alexandre Farag?
𓇋𓏌𓎡𓂀Ανοκ 𓅯𓄿𓏭πε 𓉐𓉻𓁈πουρο 𓈖ν 𓆎𓅓𓏏𓊖Χημι

18 April , 2018, 04:08:31 am
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Offline ophadece

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Re: How many people is there who can talk coptic in the whole world?
« Reply #8 on: 18 April , 2018, 04:08:31 am »
Dear Canis Majoris,
Sorry for my mistake. It seems I put the wrong post in the wrong thread!
Oujai khan ebshois
Ⲁⲣⲓϩ̀ⲙⲟⲧ ϣ̀ⲗⲏⲗ ⲉϩⲣⲏⲓ ⲉϫⲱⲛ ⲡⲓⲥⲛⲁⲩ

24 April , 2018, 08:15:31 pm
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Offline Canis Majoris

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Re: How many people is there who can talk coptic in the whole world?
« Reply #9 on: 24 April , 2018, 08:15:31 pm »
How many people is there who can talk coptic in the whole world?
I read that it was 300 and that they all live in canada and us and some family in egypt..
but now when they are learning coptic in the chuchres and internet its gotta be moore than 300?
thank u for answering.

A major problem with Coptic is the lack of accessible vocabulary as well as resources to learn it; the language died in the 1700's, and by that point the Egyptian language and culture were already heavily Arabized. Coptic only exists now in the archaic form written during the late Roman Empire.

I expect the number of actual speakers to be close to or exactly 0.
𓇋𓏌𓎡𓂀Ανοκ 𓅯𓄿𓏭πε 𓉐𓉻𓁈πουρο 𓈖ν 𓆎𓅓𓏏𓊖Χημι

25 April , 2018, 08:35:42 pm
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Re: How many people is there who can talk coptic in the whole world?
« Reply #10 on: 25 April , 2018, 08:35:42 pm »
You are correct in your estimation. No more speakers unfortunately.

While Arabs certainly take big part of the blame for the disappearance of Egyptian language, the language had already deteriorated a lot by the time they conquered Egypt with lots of Greek vocab entering the language and Egyptian original writing systems were pretty much forgotten by that time.

I think shutting down the Egyptian temples (among others) by Constantine II, was the beginning of the end for Egyptian language.
Without temples there was no place to teach the language nor it's writing system. Church became the main source of education but Church was so much into Greek that eventually the language lost lot of it's vocab to it's equivalent Greek words.
Final Arabs came and gave the final blow to what was already weak language at that point.