Advanced Search

Author Topic: Virgin  (Read 12452 times)

14 February , 2011, 03:40:24 AM
Read 12452 times

Offline epchois_nai_nan

  • Newbie

  • *

  • 18
    Posts

  • People said thank you: 0

Virgin
« on: 14 February , 2011, 03:40:24 AM »
Oudjai khen ep-chois na-esnew
I would like to know the Coptic word for "Virgin", since I am writing a Coptic translation of a text and would like to avoid using the Greek loan word "Parthenos".

It would also help to know the Coptic word that is the equivalent of 'Khoros' (chorus) in Greek.

Mioden emasho.
Oudjai
   
Quote

ⲟⲩϫⲁⲓ ϧⲉⲛ ⲡϭⲟⲓⲥ ⲛⲁⲥⲛⲏⲟⲩ....ⲡⲁⲣⲑⲉⲛⲟⲥ....ⲭⲱⲣⲟⲥ....ⲙⲓⲟⲧⲉⲛ ⲉⲙⲁϣⲱ ⲟⲩϫⲁⲓ
   
« Last Edit: 12 December , 2024, 07:14:31 PM by bashandy »

14 February , 2011, 01:24:50 PM
Reply #1

Offline Admin

  • Administrator

  • *****

  • 1165
    Posts

  • People said thank you: 17

    • Ⲧⲉⲛⲁⲥⲡⲓ
Re: Virgin
« Reply #1 on: 14 February , 2011, 01:24:50 PM »
In Bohairic I don't think there is one
In Sahidic it is ⲣⲟⲟⲩⲛⲉ - ⲣⲁⲩⲛⲉ
In Akhmimic it is ⲣⲁⲟⲩⲛⲉ
In Faiomic  it is ⲗⲁⲩⲛⲓ

If I were you, I would have used ⲣⲁⲩⲛⲓ to mean virgin in Bohairic. but of course this is up to you
my reference: Crum coptic dictionary page 306 column b

26 February , 2011, 03:46:27 AM
Reply #2

Offline IbrahimLeiden

  • Jr. Member

  • **

  • 95
    Posts

  • People said thank you: 2

Re: Virgin
« Reply #2 on: 26 February , 2011, 03:46:27 AM »
Dear All,
In Bohairic, You can use (rwouni).
Regards

26 February , 2011, 01:41:02 PM
Reply #3

Offline Admin

  • Administrator

  • *****

  • 1165
    Posts

  • People said thank you: 17

    • Ⲧⲉⲛⲁⲥⲡⲓ
Re: Virgin
« Reply #3 on: 26 February , 2011, 01:41:02 PM »
does this word exists in a dictionary or you are just suggesting it?

26 February , 2011, 02:34:21 PM
Reply #4

Offline IbrahimLeiden

  • Jr. Member

  • **

  • 95
    Posts

  • People said thank you: 2

Re: Virgin
« Reply #4 on: 26 February , 2011, 02:34:21 PM »
It is in Magdy 3iad's Dictionary, the one in my hand now, but I think it is also in Crum and Abd el nour.

Regards

26 February , 2011, 02:53:11 PM
Reply #5

Offline Admin

  • Administrator

  • *****

  • 1165
    Posts

  • People said thank you: 17

    • Ⲧⲉⲛⲁⲥⲡⲓ
Re: Virgin
« Reply #5 on: 26 February , 2011, 02:53:11 PM »
It is not in Crum, or at least i didn't find it there. please correct me if I am wrong

26 February , 2011, 03:56:15 PM
Reply #6

Offline IbrahimLeiden

  • Jr. Member

  • **

  • 95
    Posts

  • People said thank you: 2

Re: Virgin
« Reply #6 on: 26 February , 2011, 03:56:15 PM »
In Crum, p. 306 b. it is not there , I do  not know why? Stange..... may be it is somewhere else as Crum's habit
You can check the corrections of Rodolph Kasser?
Or wait for me, I will check it soon!

Regardds

26 February , 2011, 07:03:55 PM
Reply #7

Offline IbrahimLeiden

  • Jr. Member

  • **

  • 95
    Posts

  • People said thank you: 2

Re: Virgin
« Reply #7 on: 26 February , 2011, 07:03:55 PM »
Hi
I looked it up, It has no origin in Hieroglyphs. The strange is that no western dictionary has it, I looked in dictionaries of Werner Vycichl, Crum, Kasser, Westendorf, Cerny and Barc and I did not find it, these dictionaries collected words only from texts. So in dictionaries like Abu Maqar p. 150 and Abd el Nor p. 330, and Magdy Youseff p. 338 you will find the word, and you should know that these dictionaries collected words from - in most- the authors's memory/mind.

Crum mentions (XPWouni) but it means some kind of tree!!!!!

One more note the word is not in Greek dictionary of Liddell and scott (the small one).

So, you can use the word carefully.

Regards

27 February , 2011, 01:06:19 AM
Reply #8

Offline Admin

  • Administrator

  • *****

  • 1165
    Posts

  • People said thank you: 17

    • Ⲧⲉⲛⲁⲥⲡⲓ
Re: Virgin
« Reply #8 on: 27 February , 2011, 01:06:19 AM »
that's one reason for why I never rely on the Arabic dictionaries

27 February , 2011, 01:10:19 AM
Reply #9

Offline IbrahimLeiden

  • Jr. Member

  • **

  • 95
    Posts

  • People said thank you: 2

Re: Virgin
« Reply #9 on: 27 February , 2011, 01:10:19 AM »
There is no rule - in my opinion - at that generalization!
I think Abd El-Nor Dictionary is one of the best, even in comparison with Crum's!

Regards

26 September , 2014, 03:59:23 PM
Reply #10

Offline Anaksunamun

  • Newbie

  • *

  • 48
    Posts

  • People said thank you: 6

Re: Virgin
« Reply #10 on: 26 September , 2014, 03:59:23 PM »
Just like a post I previously replied to "Coptic word for 'nut'", I have also not found a true term for virgin unrelated to Greek. I don't believe they necessarily had a word for this.
I would assume they just said "a young wo/man, girl/boy" or had some colloquial term like "marriagable girl/boy"  and left it at that without getting into specifics and once the Greek conquest came with Christianity they needed a term for 'virgin' since it's an integral part of Christianity and the 'Virgin Mary'.

02 December , 2024, 08:36:48 PM
Reply #11

Offline bashandy

  • Administrator

  • *****

  • ⲡⲉϣⲉⲛϯ ⲑⲉⲟⲇⲱⲣⲟⲥ

  • 222
    Posts

  • People said thank you: 5

    • Coptic Pen
Re: Virgin
« Reply #11 on: 02 December , 2024, 08:36:48 PM »
I would agree that ⲣⲟⲟⲩⲛⲉ means virgin, it descended from Demotic rn.t, Hieroglyphic Egyptian rnn.t maiden

I was wondering why there is a need to avoid Greek loanwords. The aim is usually to try to write as natives wrote or spoke. In most of the texts that I read the term 'parthenos' and 'chorus' were used. Also terms like ⲡⲁⲣⲑⲉⲛⲟⲥ & ⲣⲟⲟⲩⲛⲉ may not have the exact shade of meaning. This is something that may not be entirely clear from dictionaries or books.

There is history of avoiding Greek loanwords that dates back to early 20th century's attempt of revival of Coptic language which was rooted in nationalistic values, this extended to multiple writers. In my view, the outcome in some circumstances created confusion of certain meanings, and use of obscure terms as the aim was to 'purify' Coptic rather than to communicate. The concept of linguistic purity is an artificial one, as Ancient Egyptian had multitude of loandwords. Coptic has loanwords from Greek, Hebrew, Arabic, Syriac, Akkadian, Latin, Persian and others. A quick glance in Cerny's Coptic etymological dictionary.
ⲧⲁⲁⲥ ⲛⲧⲁⲅⲟⲣⲁ ⲛⲧⲉ ⲧⲉⲛⲁⲥⲡⲓ ⲛⲣⲉⲙⲛⲭⲏⲙⲓ ϩⲓⲧⲉⲛ ⲡⲉϣⲉⲛϯ ⲑⲉⲟⲇⲱⲣⲟⲥ


 

Sitemap 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10