Advanced Search

Author Topic: Practicing by Translation  (Read 239 times)

27 May , 2017, 11:49:48 am
Read 239 times

Offline ⲡⲓⲙⲟⲩⲓ

  • Newbie

  • *

  • 10
    Posts

Practicing by Translation
« on: 27 May , 2017, 11:49:48 am »
Hello,

As a very newbie, I decided to strengthen my Coptic learning skills by translating some personal content e.g., from my homepage.
The main problem I am facing is the lack of modern vocabulary, which I try to overcome by carefully selecting words that are as close as possible to the original meaning. The lack of modern non-religious content that one can use to learn from (as a sample) is another one. Even newly created content in the form of Facebook posts is created as images, which can't be indexed by search engines.

Anyway, please excuse my long introduction. I am starting this thread to ask about the sentences that I fail to translate as they do, and hopefully could get an answer. :)

The first sentence is: "I am working under supervision of Mr. ...."
The closest I can get is: "ⲉⲓⲉⲣϩⲱⲃ ϧⲁ ⲡⲓϫⲓⲛⲭⲏ ϧⲁ ⲛⲏⲃ ...."
I relied on the verb ⲭⲏ as I saw "ⲫⲏⲉⲧⲭⲏ ϩⲓϫⲉⲛ" in M.D. (p. 513b) with a similar meaning: "المشرف على / القائم على" (IIRC).
I think one might also get another close meaning by using the verb ⲥⲟϭⲛⲓ to mean advised by.

Thanks a lot!
« Last Edit: 27 May , 2017, 11:54:37 am by ⲡⲓⲙⲟⲩⲓ »

27 May , 2017, 05:01:07 pm
Reply #1

Offline Admin

  • Administrator

  • *****

  • 1082
    Posts

    • Ⲧⲉⲛⲁⲥⲡⲓ
Re: Practicing by Translation
« Reply #1 on: 27 May , 2017, 05:01:07 pm »
I am not sure what M.D.is short for.
I tried to look in Crum, I could see that the word ⲭⲱ can indeed mean appoint but I couldn't find any example (not saying there isn't, just I couldn't find it).
If you can find an example or two that would be great.

I also would like to suggest the word ⲙⲉⲧⲣⲉϥϭⲓⲙⲱⲓⲧ  (=guidance) from ⲣⲉϥϭⲓⲙⲱⲓⲧ (guide), I feel this is closer to the word supervisor

27 May , 2017, 11:34:19 pm
Reply #2

Offline ⲡⲓⲙⲟⲩⲓ

  • Newbie

  • *

  • 10
    Posts

Re: Practicing by Translation
« Reply #2 on: 27 May , 2017, 11:34:19 pm »
Oftentimes, I see others refer to Crum's Dictionary as just C.D. (e.g., [1]), hence I used M.D. to refer to Mo'awad Dawoud's dictionary, my mistake.

Here's an example:

Was my initial sentence grammatically correct? "ⲉⲓⲉⲣϩⲱⲃ ϧⲁ ⲡⲓϫⲓⲛⲭⲏ ϧⲁ ⲛⲏⲃ ...."

Indeed ⲙⲉⲧⲣⲉϥϭⲓⲙⲱⲓⲧ is a very close candidate to the word 'supervision'. Hence, "ⲉⲓⲉⲣϩⲱⲃ ϧⲁ ϯⲙⲉⲧⲣⲉϥϭⲓⲙⲱⲓⲧ ⲛⲧⲉ ⲛⲏⲃ ..." (not sure if it's grammatically correct, though)

Thank you!

[1] https://corpling.uis.georgetown.edu/coptic-dictionary/entry.cgi?entry=26&super=12

28 May , 2017, 12:42:26 am
Reply #3

Offline Admin

  • Administrator

  • *****

  • 1082
    Posts

    • Ⲧⲉⲛⲁⲥⲡⲓ
Re: Practicing by Translation
« Reply #3 on: 28 May , 2017, 12:42:26 am »
Alright so luckily Mo'awad Dawoud has given us an authentic reference. (Acts 12:20)

Quote
ⲈⲦⲀⲨⲐⲈⲦ ⲠϨⲎⲦ ⲘⲠⲖⲀⲤⲦⲞⲤ ⲪⲎ ⲈⲦⲬⲎ ϨⲒϪⲈⲚ ⲠⲒⲔⲞⲒⲦⲰⲚ ⲚⲦⲈⲠⲞⲨⲢⲞ ⲚⲀⲨⲈⲢⲈⲦⲒⲚ ⲚⲞⲨϨⲒⲢⲎⲚⲎ
having won over Blastus the king's chamberlain, they were asking for peace

After looking up the meaning of chamberlain, it can be deducted that ⲬⲎ ϨⲒϪⲈⲚ means "in charge of".

Now you could say "Mr. .... is in charge of me" but I think it has totally different meaning than the one u intend.

ⲉⲓⲉⲣϩⲱⲃ ϧⲁ ϯⲙⲉⲧⲣⲉϥϭⲓⲙⲱⲓⲧ ⲛⲧⲉ `ⲫⲛⲏⲃ ....

but you can also shorten it a bit
ⲉⲓⲉⲣϩⲱⲃ ϧⲁ `ⲑⲙⲉⲧⲣⲉϥϭⲓⲙⲱⲓⲧ `ⲙ`ⲫⲛⲏⲃ ....

The only thing I am not sure of is the red word  ϧⲁ, could be right or could be wrong. can't be sure until I find it in an authentic Coptic sentence

04 June , 2017, 10:48:00 am
Reply #4

Offline ⲡⲓⲙⲟⲩⲓ

  • Newbie

  • *

  • 10
    Posts

Re: Practicing by Translation
« Reply #4 on: 04 June , 2017, 10:48:00 am »
Thanks a lot Admin for your answer.

That's the best we can get. I made up the 'ϧⲁ' word myself as direct translation from the English word 'under'. 'ϧⲉⲛ' might also be an option.


« Last Edit: 04 June , 2017, 12:24:53 pm by ⲡⲓⲙⲟⲩⲓ »

12 June , 2017, 11:24:52 am
Reply #5

Offline ⲡⲓⲙⲟⲩⲓ

  • Newbie

  • *

  • 10
    Posts

Re: Practicing by Translation
« Reply #5 on: 12 June , 2017, 11:24:52 am »
Hi Again,

Now I'm trying to translate a favorite quote of mine into Coptic:
"Do you pine for the nice days of Minix-1.1, when men were men and wrote their own device drivers?"
And this is my homework:  ???
"ϭⲓϣϣⲱⲟⲩ `ⲉ ⲛⲉⲛⲉϩⲟⲟⲩ ⲉⲑⲛⲁⲛⲉⲩ `ⲙ ⲙⲓⲛⲓⲭⲥ-1.1, ⲉⲧⲉ `ⲙⲡⲉ ϩⲁⲛⲣⲱⲙⲓ ϩⲁⲛⲣⲱⲙⲓ ⲛⲉ ⲟⲩⲟϩ ⲁⲩⲥϧⲁⲓ `ⲛ ⲛⲟⲩⲣⲉϥϭⲱⲣⲉⲙ `ⲛ ⲟⲩⲥⲟⲑⲛⲉϥ?"
  • I'm not sure if 'ⲣⲉϥϭⲱⲣⲉⲙ' could be replaced by 'ⲫⲏⲉⲧⲥⲱⲕ' or not (to mean a driver, or an operator).
  • Also, I'm not sure if 'ⲥⲟⲑⲛⲉϥ' could be replaced by 'ϩⲛⲁⲩ' which seems closer to the word device but apparently it's a Sahidic word.

How bad is my translation? any feedback is welcome.
Thanks!
« Last Edit: 12 June , 2017, 11:59:36 am by ⲡⲓⲙⲟⲩⲓ »

15 June , 2017, 05:27:35 pm
Reply #6

Offline Admin

  • Administrator

  • *****

  • 1082
    Posts

    • Ⲧⲉⲛⲁⲥⲡⲓ
Re: Practicing by Translation
« Reply #6 on: 15 June , 2017, 05:27:35 pm »
I think you are doing great, here are my comments
"ϭⲓϣϣⲱⲟⲩ `ⲉ ⲛⲉⲛⲉϩⲟⲟⲩ ⲉⲑⲛⲁⲛⲉⲩ = miss the good days
This sentence has no tense indicator which AFAIK is not correct grammatically.
I'd add ˋⲕ at the beginning [= you (masc.) ]
ˋⲕϭⲓϣϣⲱⲟⲩ `ⲉ ⲛⲉⲛⲉϩⲟⲟⲩ ⲉⲑⲛⲁⲛⲉⲩ = you miss the good days?

Now next part is
ⲉⲧⲉ `ⲙⲡⲉ ϩⲁⲛⲣⲱⲙⲓ ϩⲁⲛⲣⲱⲙⲓ ⲛⲉ
`ⲙⲡⲉ is for negating the past tense so the sentence would translate to
which men weren't men

I would change it to be 
ⲉⲧⲉ ϩⲁⲛⲣⲱⲙⲓ  ⲛⲉ ϩⲁⲛⲣⲱⲙⲓ ⲡⲉ = which men were men
Next, since this sentence is referring to the good days then I have to add ⲛⲓ here as well
ⲛⲓⲉⲧⲉ ϩⲁⲛⲣⲱⲙⲓ  ⲛⲉ ϩⲁⲛⲣⲱⲙⲓ ⲡⲉ = which men were men

Next part is
ⲟⲩⲟϩ ⲁⲩⲥϧⲁⲓ `ⲛ ⲛⲟⲩⲣⲉϥϭⲱⲣⲉⲙ `ⲛ ⲟⲩⲥⲟⲑⲛⲉϥ?"

ⲟⲩⲟϩ here is separating the two sentences and making them seem unrelated whereas here we need to give sense of causality (i.e why I am saying men were men back then)
I'd replace ⲟⲩⲟϩ with ⲉ

ⲉⲩⲥϧⲁⲓ `ⲛ ⲛⲟⲩⲣⲉϥϭⲱⲣⲉⲙ `ⲛ ⲟⲩⲥⲟⲑⲛⲉϥ?"
which would translate as "writing their own drivers
even though ⲉⲩ indicate present continuous, the whole sentence is in the past

Here is a reference form the bible
ⲘⲪⲢⲎϮ ⲄⲀⲢ ⲈⲚⲀⲨϢⲞⲠ ϦⲈⲚⲚⲒⲈϨⲞⲞⲨ ⲈⲦϦⲀϪⲰϤ ⲘⲠⲒⲔⲀⲦⲀⲔⲖⲨⲤⲘⲞⲤ ⲈⲨⲞⲨⲰⲘ ⲞⲨⲞϨ ⲈⲨⲤⲰ
For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking,

I think ⲣⲉϥϭⲱⲣⲉⲙ is fine.
I am not sure about device, your call