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Author Topic: What is Yeshua in Coptic?  (Read 3327 times)

24 January , 2018, 11:49:20 AM
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Offline dflynn

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What is Yeshua in Coptic?
« on: 24 January , 2018, 11:49:20 AM »
How would Yeshua (Jesus's name in Aramaic) be written in Coptic?
Not just Jesus (Ⲓⲏⲥⲟϒⲥ) which corresponds to the Greek spelling Iesous.
Also what would the English phonetic spelling be?
Thanks

28 February , 2018, 01:57:50 AM
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Offline ⲁϩⲙⲟⲥⲓ

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Re: What is Yeshua in Coptic?
« Reply #1 on: 28 February , 2018, 01:57:50 AM »
ϯⲙⲉⲩⲓ ϫⲉ ⲡⲓⲣⲁⲛ ⲛיֵשׁוּעַ̇ ⲡⲉ ⲓⲏϣⲟⲩⲁ ⲛ̇ϯⲙⲉⲧⲣⲉⲙⲛⲭⲏⲙⲓ

22 July , 2018, 10:11:49 PM
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Offline Admin

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Re: What is Yeshua in Coptic?
« Reply #2 on: 22 July , 2018, 10:11:49 PM »
Quote
ϯⲙⲉⲩⲓ ϫⲉ ⲡⲓⲣⲁⲛ ⲛיֵשׁוּעַ̇ ⲡⲉ ⲓⲏϣⲟⲩⲁ ⲛ̇ϯⲙⲉⲧⲣⲉⲙⲛⲭⲏⲙⲓ
Is there any reference or Coptic manuscript that mention the name "ⲓⲏϣⲟⲩⲁ" ?

23 July , 2018, 06:54:52 AM
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Offline ⲁϩⲙⲟⲥⲓ

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Re: What is Yeshua in Coptic?
« Reply #3 on: 23 July , 2018, 06:54:52 AM »
ϯⲙⲉⲩⲓ ϫⲉ `ⲙⲙⲟⲛ ⲡⲁⲓϣⲁϫⲓ ϧⲉⲛϩⲁⲛϫⲱⲙ `ⲛⲁⲡⲁⲥ `ⲛⲣⲉⲙⲛⲭⲏⲙⲓ.

12 December , 2024, 07:35:48 PM
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Offline bashandy

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Re: What is Yeshua in Coptic?
« Reply #4 on: 12 December , 2024, 07:35:48 PM »
ⲥⲉⲙⲟⲩϯ ⲉⲣⲟϥ ϫⲉ ⲓⲏⲥⲟⲩ ⲕⲉ ⲡⲁⲗⲓⲛ ⲟⲛ ⲓⲏⲥⲟⲩⲥ ⲕⲁⲧⲁ ⲡϫⲱⲙ ⲛⲓⲏⲥⲟⲩ ϧⲉⲛ ϯⲇⲓⲁⲑⲏⲕⲏ ⲛⲁⲡⲁⲥ
ⲧⲁⲁⲥ ⲛⲧⲁⲅⲟⲣⲁ ⲛⲧⲉ ⲧⲉⲛⲁⲥⲡⲓ ⲛⲣⲉⲙⲛⲭⲏⲙⲓ ϩⲓⲧⲉⲛ ⲡⲉϣⲉⲛϯ ⲑⲉⲟⲇⲱⲣⲟⲥ

13 March , 2025, 01:28:43 AM
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Offline mlinssen

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Re: What is Yeshua in Coptic?
« Reply #5 on: 13 March , 2025, 01:28:43 AM »
The word doesn't exist in any text, whether Greek or Coptic (or Latin).
The oldest text that contains the full form in Coptic, is Melchizedek from the Nag Hammadi Library Codex IX, and this is in the very first line:

ⲓⲏⲥⲟⲩⲥ ⲡⲉ ⲭ̅ⲥ̅

Other than that we always find the brief forms ⲓⲏⲥ and ⲓⲥ - and when we do find ⲓⲏⲥⲟⲩⲥ, it means Joshua, as that is the way that Joshua is written in Greek - long before there was Christianity of any kind

When we observe Luke 3:29, part of the genealogy, we find ⲡϣⲏⲣⲉ ⲛ̅ⲓ̈ⲏⲥⲟⲩⲥ: the son of Joshua.
Yet when we observe Acts 7:45 and Hebrews 4:8, we find the brief form that is used for Jesus: ϫⲓⲧⲥ̅ ⲉϩⲟⲩⲛ ⲙⲛ̅ⲓ̅ⲥ̅ and ⲉⲛⲉⲛⲧⲁⲓ̅ⲥ̅ ⲅⲁⲣ ϯⲙ̅ⲧⲟⲛ ⲛⲁⲩ

The thing is, in the Christian texts we find these two forms interchangeable, even though that such occurs very rarely for Jesus, whereas Joshua frequently is written with the short forms that are exclusively reserved for Jesus. Coptic mixes both, even in one and the same text, while Greek almost exclusively uses the shorter form and Latin the longer. The longer form is earlier, certainly when it comes to ⲭⲣⲥ vs ⲭⲥ

And whereas Moses occurs more than a few times in the Nag Hammadi Library, Joshua is completely absent

So, to answer your question, my question would be: who exactly do you mean with Yeshua?

13 March , 2025, 01:38:39 AM
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Offline mlinssen

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Re: What is Yeshua in Coptic?
« Reply #6 on: 13 March , 2025, 01:38:39 AM »
Quote
ϯⲙⲉⲩⲓ ϫⲉ ⲡⲓⲣⲁⲛ ⲛיֵשׁוּעַ̇ ⲡⲉ ⲓⲏϣⲟⲩⲁ ⲛ̇ϯⲙⲉⲧⲣⲉⲙⲛⲭⲏⲙⲓ
Is there any reference or Coptic manuscript that mention the name "ⲓⲏϣⲟⲩⲁ" ?

https://data.copticscriptorium.org/texts/old-testament/06_joshua_1/analytic

Please see the book of Joshua in the Coptic Scriptorium.
I think it is fair to state - and I haven't done any research in this direction! - that Coptic inherited the Greek word for Joshua, and thus writes it as ⲓⲏⲥⲟⲩⲥ

It all goes wrong with Latin, that at some point starts to write out the name for the protagonist of the NT in full, and then discontinues what the Greek has, namely Joshua, and instead invents IESUS

And then come the contemporary languages and those interpret that in their own way, with the J being invented around the 16th CE, and here we are saying Jesus to what in the texts is written as IS or IES (transcribing the Greek ETA as E)

Long story short: the "name" is IS in ALL the texts. And where Joshua is meant, we find ⲓⲏⲥⲟⲩⲥ - even though these two sometimes are deliberately exchanged, in the NT as well as in the OT (!!!) and also by the so-called Church Fathers (Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, etc)
« Last Edit: 13 March , 2025, 01:40:10 AM by mlinssen »

13 March , 2025, 11:39:18 PM
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Offline mlinssen

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Re: What is Yeshua in Coptic?
« Reply #7 on: 13 March , 2025, 11:39:18 PM »
Melchizedek, very first line - and again, this is the only full form in all of the NHL:

https://ccdl.claremont.edu/digital/collection/nha/id/1241

And then the usual, namely ⲓⲏⲥ/ⲓⲥ. Thomas contains 3 of the first and 102 of the last, which makes up over half of the entire Nag Hammadi Library - if interested in that, there's https://www.academia.edu/124658153

Thomas leaf 4 starts halfway Logion 13:

https://ccdl.claremont.edu/digital/custom/mirador?manifest=https://ccdl.claremont.edu/digital/iiif-info/nha/2893/manifest.json

(This is the IIIF viewer, much more pleasant to navigate). Observe line 4:

ⲉⲧⲣⲁ ϫⲟⲟ ⲥ ϫⲉ ⲉ ⲕ ⲉⲓⲛⲉ ⲛ̅ ⲛⲓⲙ` ⲡⲉϫⲉ ⲓⲏ̅ⲥ̅

and then also observe line 10:

ⲛ̅ⲧⲁ ⲓ̅ⲥ̅ ϫⲟⲟ ⲥ ϫⲉ ⲟⲩ ⲛⲁ ⲕ` ⲡⲉϫⲁ ϥ` ⲛⲁ ⲩ ⲛ̅ϭⲓ

That's the "name" that you're looking for, or rather, what is present in the texts
« Last Edit: 13 March , 2025, 11:43:21 PM by mlinssen »


 

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