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Author Topic: Modern Spoken Coptic and Community Negotiation of Linguistic Authenticity  (Read 2409 times)

07 July , 2018, 09:30:17 AM
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Offline ⲡⲓⲙⲟⲩⲓ

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I accidentally came across this master thesis http://digitalrepository.unm.edu/ling_etds/36/.
It has an interesting discussion on the Greco-Bohairic and Old Bohairic pronunciation (may be I should've posted it in the "Old pronunciation vs new debate" forum?). The thesis dates back to 2015, so it's recent compared to Fr. Shenouda Maher's PhD dissertation. Hence, I assume that it cites more up-to-date research conducted in that regard.
« Last Edit: 07 July , 2018, 10:27:29 AM by ⲡⲓⲙⲟⲩⲓ »

22 July , 2018, 10:36:16 PM
Reply #1

Offline Admin

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    • Ⲧⲉⲛⲁⲥⲡⲓ
Thank you for sharing!Old vs New debate group is dedicated for GrekoBohiairic supporters to be able to express their opinion without spreading it all over the forum.You did good posting it here.I am reading it right now.
One irony is that they say modern Copts don't distinguish between ϥ and ⲫ yet on the same page (page 9), they have also misspelled
"
ⲁϥⲓ̀ ⲉ̀ⲃⲟⲗ" as "ⲁⲫⲓ̀ ⲉ̀ⲃⲟⲗ"

Not a big deal but makes me wonder if someone has reviewed this research before being published
« Last Edit: 22 July , 2018, 10:50:12 PM by Admin »

02 December , 2024, 12:40:43 AM
Reply #2

Offline bashandy

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The authenticiy and historicity of Old Bohairic pronunciation is well established. What is lacking from most of the OB v. GB debate is the politics behind the scene.

When Dr Emile Maher Ishak reached his preliminary conclusions, his findings were not welcomed by many inside the Coptic church.

On 2[7] Hator 1685 AM (6 Dec 1968 CE) a meeting was held to discuss the Old Bohairic pronunciation
- Shaker Basilios (Head of Department of Coptic language, Institute of Coptic Studies, Egypt)
- Abba Gregorius (General Bishop for Higher Theological Studies, Coptic Culture and Scientific Research)
- Ragheb Moftah (Head of Music and Hymnology dept. Institute of Coptic Studies, Egypt)
- Head of Coptic Archaeology, Institute of Coptic Studies, Egypt
- Dr Kamal Farid Ishaq, teacher of Greek and Coptic language, Institute of Coptic Studies, Egypt

The committee decided that OB pronunciation is influenced by Sahidic, and 'corrupt', if I remember correctly. A few years later, Dr Emile Mahee Ishak earned his PhD from University of Oxford, UK.

It was ironic that the findings of Dr Emile Maher Ishak earned him a PhD from one of the top 10 universities world wide under the supervision of professors of linguistics, while the institute of Coptic studies, which is not even approved by the Supreme Council of Universities, Egypt, rejected his findings.

Instead of acknowledging his academic rigour as a researcher, the institute doubled down on its rejection without reading his thesis, as it was not available online for a long time. 

 
« Last Edit: 02 December , 2024, 10:56:46 AM by bashandy »
ⲧⲁⲁⲥ ⲛⲧⲁⲅⲟⲣⲁ ⲛⲧⲉ ⲧⲉⲛⲁⲥⲡⲓ ⲛⲣⲉⲙⲛⲭⲏⲙⲓ ϩⲓⲧⲉⲛ ⲡⲉϣⲉⲛϯ ⲑⲉⲟⲇⲱⲣⲟⲥ

02 December , 2024, 02:07:45 AM
Reply #3

Offline ophadece

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Very informative post - just to point out that the Coptic and Gregorian dates do not match.. I believe it should be 26th Hator which falls on the 6th of December.. Thank you Bashandy..
Ⲟⲩϫⲁⲓ ϧⲉⲛ ⲡϭⲥ
Ⲁⲣⲓϩ̀ⲙⲟⲧ ϣ̀ⲗⲏⲗ ⲉϩⲣⲏⲓ ⲉϫⲱⲛ

02 December , 2024, 10:58:44 AM
Reply #4

Offline bashandy

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Thank you for noticing that the print is missing the scan is missing the most right side of the document. I used an online converter to double check the date, it should have been 27 Hator, 1685 (https://planetcalc.com/8500/). I have added the missing number in square brackets for clarity.
ⲧⲁⲁⲥ ⲛⲧⲁⲅⲟⲣⲁ ⲛⲧⲉ ⲧⲉⲛⲁⲥⲡⲓ ⲛⲣⲉⲙⲛⲭⲏⲙⲓ ϩⲓⲧⲉⲛ ⲡⲉϣⲉⲛϯ ⲑⲉⲟⲇⲱⲣⲟⲥ

03 December , 2024, 03:13:22 AM
Reply #5

Offline ophadece

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Yes of course - thank you very much also for correcting me, the Gregorian date in the last century is as it is in this one so the 27th of Hator, and not the 26th, falls on the 6th of December..
Ⲟⲩϫⲁⲓ ϧⲉⲛ ⲡϭⲥ
Ⲁⲣⲓϩ̀ⲙⲟⲧ ϣ̀ⲗⲏⲗ ⲉϩⲣⲏⲓ ⲉϫⲱⲛ

03 December , 2024, 02:14:41 PM
Reply #6

Offline bashandy

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Thank you for clarification. I know you're an expert on Gregorian, Julian and other calendars.
ⲧⲁⲁⲥ ⲛⲧⲁⲅⲟⲣⲁ ⲛⲧⲉ ⲧⲉⲛⲁⲥⲡⲓ ⲛⲣⲉⲙⲛⲭⲏⲙⲓ ϩⲓⲧⲉⲛ ⲡⲉϣⲉⲛϯ ⲑⲉⲟⲇⲱⲣⲟⲥ


 

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