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Author Topic: a translation request  (Read 173 times)

23 June , 2022, 01:27:44 PM
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Offline willday22

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a translation request
« on: 23 June , 2022, 01:27:44 PM »
Hello I am needing help translating an English phrase into coptic, as follows:
"Heaven's blessings to those who give thanks"
If anyone can help, thank you.

23 June , 2022, 05:48:02 PM
Reply #1

Offline Admin

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Re: a translation request
« Reply #1 on: 23 June , 2022, 05:48:02 PM »
ⲡⲓⲥⲙⲟⲩ `ⲛⲧⲫⲉ ⲫⲁ ⲛⲏⲉⲧϣⲉⲡ`ϩⲙⲟⲧ

Heaven's blessing is for those who thank
I'd wait confirmation from other members before taking this translation

25 June , 2022, 01:12:28 PM
Reply #2

Offline willday22

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Re: a translation request
« Reply #2 on: 25 June , 2022, 01:12:28 PM »
I will wait for alternatives as you suggest, but sincere thanks for taking the time to help.

19 July , 2022, 07:06:30 PM
Reply #3

Offline ophadece

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Re: a translation request
« Reply #3 on: 19 July , 2022, 07:06:30 PM »
Hi willday22,
Of course admin's translation is nice but I would go for a different structure
Ⲉⲣⲉ ⲡⲓⲥⲙⲟⲩ ⲛ̀ⲧⲉ ⲧⲫⲉ ⲛ̀ⲛⲏⲉⲧϯ ⲙ̀ⲡⲓϣⲉⲡϩⲙⲟⲧ
I would always use ⲉⲣⲉ or similar for this sort of sentence since it is more or less like "may the ..."
Ⲟⲩϫⲁⲓ ϧⲉⲛ ⲡϭⲥ
Ⲁⲣⲓϩ̀ⲙⲟⲧ ϣ̀ⲗⲏⲗ ⲉϩⲣⲏⲓ ⲉϫⲱⲛ

19 July , 2022, 07:55:11 PM
Reply #4

Offline Admin

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Re: a translation request
« Reply #4 on: 19 July , 2022, 07:55:11 PM »
Thanks ophadece!

I chose "ⲡⲓⲥⲙⲟⲩ `ⲛⲧⲫⲉ ⲫⲁ" because it's similar to a common phrase "Ⲡⲓⲱⲟⲩ ⲫⲁ ⲡⲉⲛⲛⲟⲩϯ ⲡⲉ" (glory to our god).
For Ⲉⲣⲉ ⲡⲓⲥⲙⲟⲩ ⲛ̀ⲧⲉ ⲧⲫⲉ ⲛ̀ⲛⲏⲉⲧϯ ⲙ̀ⲡⲓϣⲉⲡϩⲙⲟⲧ I have two questions:

1. should it be ⲛ̀ⲛⲏⲉⲧ or ⲉⲛⲏⲉⲧ ?
2. literal translation of ϣⲉⲡ.ϩⲙⲟⲧ is "accept blessing" so ϯ ⲙ̀ⲡⲓϣⲉⲡϩⲙⲟⲧ would literally translate to "giving of the accepting of blessing". why not simply ⲛ̀ⲛⲏⲉⲧ ϣⲉⲡϩⲙⲟⲧ? have you encountered the term ϯ ⲙ̀ⲡⲓϣⲉⲡϩⲙⲟⲧ in a Coptic text before?

Another suggestion is ⲡⲓⲥⲙⲟⲩ ⲛ̀ⲧⲉ ⲧⲫⲉ ⲉⲛⲓⲣⲉϥϣⲉⲡϩ̀ⲙⲟⲧ (ⲣⲉϥϣⲉⲡϩ̀ⲙⲟⲧ is mentioned in Coptic dictionary as a valid word).

What do you think?

20 July , 2022, 02:16:46 AM
Reply #5

Offline ophadece

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Re: a translation request
« Reply #5 on: 20 July , 2022, 02:16:46 AM »
Dear admin,
You said you were rusty not having read Coptic in a while and you come up with all those thoughts? Wow, wow, wow..
I guess in short ϯ ⲙ̀ⲡⲓϣⲉⲡϩⲙⲟⲧ is mentioned in Muawad Dawood. The question on ⲉ ⲓⲉ ⲛ̀ I guess both convey the meaning.. ⲛⲓⲣⲉϥϣⲉⲡϩⲙⲟⲧ is another very good word to use..
Ⲟⲩϫⲁⲓ ϧⲉⲛ ⲡϭⲥ
« Last Edit: 20 July , 2022, 02:18:17 AM by ophadece »
Ⲁⲣⲓϩ̀ⲙⲟⲧ ϣ̀ⲗⲏⲗ ⲉϩⲣⲏⲓ ⲉϫⲱⲛ

20 July , 2022, 08:19:09 AM
Reply #6

Offline Admin

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Re: a translation request
« Reply #6 on: 20 July , 2022, 08:19:09 AM »
My main problem with Muawad Dawood is that in many cases he doesn't give any references. I've looked up  ϯ ⲙ̀ⲡⲓϣⲉⲡϩⲙⲟⲧ in his dictionary and there was 0 references.

Other reputable dictionaries like Crum would always give you a reference to each word they list.
Luckily I found it in crum! source is some Bohairic manuscript called "الشبهمات" or "The ϣⲉⲡϩⲙⲟⲧ" there is also another source in Sahidic in a manuscript that belong to a person called Pierpont Morgan.

But even if ϯ ⲙ̀ⲡⲓϣⲉⲡϩⲙⲟⲧ appeared in a manuscript, My personal opinion is that it's rare enough to avoid using it if an alternative is available.


20 July , 2022, 12:56:41 PM
Reply #7

Offline ophadece

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Re: a translation request
« Reply #7 on: 20 July , 2022, 12:56:41 PM »
I agree with you on Muawad Dawood's lack of scientific evidence or referencing to be precise but after all he has copied Crum - he is the fast food restaurant to the well learned source..
I disagree with you on the point of rarity and avoidance. I see a language being fluid and dynamic and the same expression can be said in several different ways, and more importantly peculiarities develop with time, and what is rare becomes common and vice versa through different times and it keeps fluctuating like that all the time.. I see Coptic not an exception to this, however limited and narrow our usage is..
Ⲟⲩϫⲁⲓ ϧⲉⲛ ⲡϭⲥ
Ⲁⲣⲓϩ̀ⲙⲟⲧ ϣ̀ⲗⲏⲗ ⲉϩⲣⲏⲓ ⲉϫⲱⲛ


 

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