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Anok:
I completely agree with most of what you have said. I'm even fond of the old Egyptian religious thought, to be honest, which shouldn't bother people as much as it does because it laid some of the foundation of Abrahamic religions. Sebayt are in the Torah / Old Testament
Jesus reportedly grew up in Egypt. Heaven and Hell themselves may have been derived from the Egyptian concepts. What is everyone's problem? Ignorance of history and of the succession of thoughts and faiths.
But even so, Coptic is a language. It shouldn't need justification to exist. It is simply a precious thing to humanity.
If there is a way to revive Coptic, its image will need to be reworked somewhat, certainly. If nothing else, I think it deserves to be a thing of national pride and not a religious safekeeping - although I am extremely grateful that the Church has preserved the language and, in the end, I am not Egyptian, so what do I know?
Anok:
Anyways, new suggestion. Duolingo is awesome and could greatly remedy the difficulty of learning Coptic. New languages are developed by their respective communities (us) and we would need to settle on a single dialect or a reasonable blend (I still endorse Bohairic supplemented with primarily Sahidic and dipping into others for unique words that can reduce Greek borrowing), but it would be fantastic and far more effective than our other projects, honestly.
The biggest difficulty would be obtaining audio true to the correct pronunciation. On the other hand, no other tool has more potential to reverse the damage done by the Greek pronunciation. Or to spread the language, in general.
However we also need either a) someone who is practically fluent to apply, or b) to write a very convincing letter to the Duolingo people. That said, I don't understand why we would be rejected. One of the courses you can apply to moderate is for learning Klingon.
Anaksunamun:
--- Quote from: Anok on 14 January , 2015, 04:19:07 PM ---Anyways, new suggestion. Duolingo is awesome and could greatly remedy the difficulty of learning Coptic. New languages are developed by their respective communities (us) and we would need to settle on a single dialect or a art blend (I still endorse Bohairic supplemented with primarily Sahidic and dipping into others for unique words that can reduce Greek borrowing), but it would be fantastic and far more effective than our other projects, honestly.
The biggest difficulty would be obtaining audio true to the correct pronunciation. On the other hand, no other tool has more potential to reverse the damage done by the Greek pronunciation. Or to spread the language, in general.
However we also need either a) someone who is practically fluent to apply, or b) to write a very convincing letter to the Duolingo people. That said, I don't understand why we would be rejected. One of the courses you can apply to moderate is for learning Klingon.
--- End quote ---
Yes I totally agree!!
There's a few difficulties with Coptic grammar which aren't explained well. This has made it difficult to find stable solutions -
For example, the verb forms have no concise interpretation (absolute, construct and pronomial are underlying forms reducing vowel quality when implemented as additions to words) and this part took me an eternity to digest because there wasn't a lesson truly describing verbs properly. Qualitative forms are extremely irregular.
Pronunciation is another problem.
In my opinion there are three main methods of pronunciation:
Greco-Coptic (Greco-Bohairic)
Old Bohairic - probably based upon Koine Greek and old Arabic
The original pronunciation - uninfluenced by Greek orthography (probably Sahidic)
Dialects shouldn't pose too much of a problem as the two main dialects are Sahidic and Bohairic, with Bohairic being used in liturgical Copt churches. The other dialects are wonderful to compare to come up with what the vowels may have been in the hieroglyphic era. From my understanding, there are no "native" speakers of Coptic, so someone with an intense knowledge of Coptic who understands the quality of pronunciation would suit best for doing the audio and someone who speaks well and has a nice voice (Male or female).
Thought I'd add some suggestions for you added to your wonderful words :)
Anok:
I keep hearing that there are ~300 first-language speakers, but I can't find much evidence for that. There are a few people who only spoke to their kids in Coptic and therefore there are a few families who definitely speak it fluently, but I have no idea how to get in touch with those people, and I have no idea what their pronunciation is like. Probably Greco-Bohairic, if the people in this video are any testament: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTjsZJNDLJw
Still, someone like that would be immensely helpful for grammar, etc.
Anaksunamun:
--- Quote from: Anok on 15 January , 2015, 01:30:20 AM ---I keep hearing that there are ~300 first-language speakers, but I can't find much evidence for that. There are a few people who only spoke to their kids in Coptic and therefore there are a few families who definitely speak it fluently, but I have no idea how to get in touch with those people, and I have no idea what their pronunciation is like. Probably Greco-Bohairic, if the people in this video are any testament: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTjsZJNDLJw
Still, someone like that would be immensely helpful for grammar, etc.
--- End quote ---
I read somewhere too that there were some people who may have spoken Coptic through passing of their family. The sources are far and in between and I haven't found any more information on it.
Some of the aspects of pronunciation, phrases and Grammar do get passed from generation to generation, which is why, when I try to reconstruct middle Egyptian I not only use Coptic but also look at colloquial Egyptian Arabic. I understand there's a genetic indirect relationship there, and I say this because -
I'm Puerto Rican, and I grew up with Spanish, but if you know a little bit of the history of Puerto Rico, originally it was inhabited by the Taíno Indians whom the Spaniards (along with European diseases) killed off the people. But within the dialect of Puerto Rico, sounds, words and phrases got passed on through the Indians into the Spanish which is spoken on the island and indirectly, you're able to reconstruct some aspects of the Taíno language which is actually another one of my projects other than ancient Egyptian.
There are groups on the island and off who are trying to preserve the original mother tongue of the Taíno language.
The same process can be done with Egyptian.
Trying to get ahold of people from the countryside, away from the larger cities whose generation has stayed within Egypt is where you'll find some genuine answers, in my opinion. I'm surprised a group of people other than the Coptic cchurch haven't tried to preserve the original language.
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